[00:00:02] Speaker A: This is Short Term Rental Management, the show that is all about short term rental property management with your host, yours truly, Luke Carl.
All right, here we go.
Today we're going to talk about cleaners asking for gratuity tips, etc.
All right, so Short Term Rental Management.
We are also discussing this a lot in Short term Shot plus. And so I would like to introduce one of our premier Short Term Shop+Coaches, Mr. Chuck Kramer. How you doing, buddy?
[00:00:40] Speaker B: Doing good, doing good. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: Yes, wonderful, wonderful.
What have you been seeing lately in general, before we get into this tip thing, like, how's life doing this this summer? Are your rents doing okay?
[00:00:54] Speaker B: Yeah, actually, we're filling in nicely.
You know, our, our ADR is actually up, so I don't mind the occasional open day here and there.
I mean, I work to film, but June, July looked pretty good. May wasn't very unexpected surprise considering it's traditionally a slow month all over.
Yeah, I, so far it, I'm filled with some optimism.
[00:01:20] Speaker A: So I'm saying the same and I hate to put the optimism out there because then everybody says, oh, you know, you're, you're, you're, I don't know, you have some voodoo or something that it's fake, you're not real. It's not real. And I'm like, well, it is real. I, I did my numbers. I think I'm up just over 10 grand. Close to 11 grand year over year, which is great. We're through the first quarter.
My, again, my May was better than usual.
Definitely have some spots that are not getting booked. Like for what, whatever reason. I got a, I got some open spots on a one bedroom in the Smokies, which is not normal. I mean, yeah, it is normal to have to drop it like stupid low sometimes, you know, if worst case scenario, especially in May.
But I've got some that are, you know, just sitting there hanging there and I'm like, man, then they're already stupid low. But my gross, my get, my gross on that thing is, is slightly, you know, slightly under last year, year over year. But my other properties as a whole, I guess all my properties as a whole, I'm up about 10 grand year over year right now, so I can't complain.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: No, that's good news.
The one that shocks me the Most is my two bedroom up in the Smokies that I'm floating around 90% occupancy without an Airbnb booking.
[00:02:35] Speaker A: All verbo.
[00:02:36] Speaker B: All verbo direct and Google any booking dot com.
No, no, I don't have that one listed on booking.com, so.
[00:02:47] Speaker A: Well, I don't blame you.
[00:02:50] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, I. I hate if you can't say anything good. Don't say anything at all. So I won't talk about booking.com right now.
I'm on my third go around with them, and I'll be taking my property off after. After my last stay.
[00:03:05] Speaker A: So I got you.
Yeah, I'm using them, but it is what it is. All right, let's talk about today's topic, which is cleaners leaving tip envelopes, or I guess in general, cleaners asking for tips. So I already mentioned the envelope. I think that's best. That's probably a pretty good place to start, is how to facilitate the asking of the tip. All right, take that back. We're going to do that. Second, we'll talk about whether or not we think this is a good idea first. And I personally say yes. I know I'm in the minority here. I've seen the Facebook threads. I've seen the Facebook posts, and I. It seems to be a pretty overwhelming number that people say, don't do this terrible idea.
We don't allow it. We think it's, you know, cheap. We think it's this, that, and the other. I disagree. And again, I. I owned a bar and I worked for tips for the majority of my 20s and early 30s. And I'm a big tipper. I am a huge tipper personally, and I love to tip. I. I like to go. And I like. I'll go into a restaurant if the waitress not doing well, if. If she's not doing her job well, I will tip more in some cases because I've been her before. I have been her where you have just had a horrible day, all this terrible stuff going on, and you got to go deal with these idiots and their steak, you know, And I'm more than happy to throw. I mean, some. I'm not. I'm not Unknown to tip 200%.
And so you got to understand, I'm. That's the kind of guy I am. And I don't know if it's. Maybe there's a correlation there between people that don't tip and these people that are posting on these Facebook threads. But when I see these threads and they seem to be overwhelming, you know, I'd say I say overwhelming more than 50%. The majority says don't allow these tips.
I'm sitting here thinking to myself, we figured out who's cheap, and we figured out who the cleaners don't want to work for. I hate to say it. I mean, that's where I'm at with it. You're not going to let people throw a hundred bucks, you know, $20 bill or $50 bill on the nightstand. I mean, what is wrong with that? I go to a hotel, I leave $20, I leave $50.
And it's, it's, it's, it's been going on for as long as hotels have existed, to my knowledge. You know, So I get it. Tipping can be a sensitive subject for some people. Some people say, oh, my goodness, you, the car wash. What are you doing? Why would you do that? You know, stuff like that. And I'm a big tipper. I like the idea. I do allow my cleaners to do it. It really honestly never really comes up in my world. If it was coming up and it was a problem, then it would need to be addressed. For whatever reason, it doesn't come up. So I don't have a problem with it. And that's where I'm at. I like it. I think we should allow the cleaners to ask for tips. We'll talk about how to facilitate that in a second.
Chuck, where are you at on the topic?
[00:06:07] Speaker B: Generally, I'm in complete agreement with you. You know, tipping kind of grew out of the old where situation where people were providing a personal service to you, probably on the very low end of the salary scale, and you'd give them a little extra for a job well done or in some cases, just a job done.
You know, we're kind of in that with the cleaners. I mean, if someone were to come in to clean your house and they did a really good job, you'd probably tip them. I don't, I don't see what the big difference is. I do understand the sensitivity in some situations where, you know, I've. I've got one big house where my cleaning fee is almost $600, you know, and then having a tip envelope there for that. I feel like it's got to be done the right way, you know, and I've certainly seen it done the wrong way. And I would not want, I would want that appeal to come from the cleaners and not for me, so.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: Well, how do you feel? Because we're in the minority here. And I will say that I don't disagree with you if you don't want to allow tips. I don't. Again, to me, it's all just a standard operating procedure. And if your procedure is to not allow your cleaner to ask for tips or Leave an envelope, et cetera. I don't see a problem with that at all. I do allow it. I think it's the way to go.
But it seems to be a bit of a debate. We had a thread recently on the Internet that hit 200 comments in, like, half a day.
And so we figured we needed to bring this to the masses on the podcast here. So do you agree?
Do you see that it's, you know, maybe for some people, it's. It's not a good thing and they're okay with it, or should everybody allow tips?
[00:07:43] Speaker B: No, it's got to be personal. You know, it's that way in restaurants. Yeah, I've been to restaurants that don't allow tipping.
[00:07:49] Speaker A: You own a restaurant?
[00:07:50] Speaker B: I do, yeah. Our. Our waitresses and our wait staff. I shouldn't be sexist like that because we're about half and half, actually. They do very well with tips, and there's that personal service. You know, they engage in conversation. They're. They're not just ferrying food from, you know, taking your order and faring the food from the kitchen. You know, they're making sure your glasses for your. Your cup of coffee is full, whatever. There's a lot of extra work that they're doing.
You might remember Airbnb doesn't do this anymore, but in the early days, they had a checkbox for host that said, we pay our cleaners a living wage. Do you remember?
[00:08:22] Speaker A: I actually didn't realize they got rid of that.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: Yeah, it's been gone for a few years now.
Probably more, I'm guessing. I don't know, but probably more. So with the advent of cleaning companies that have kind of taken over, as opposed to the majority of people being an independent cleaner, an independent contract employee, now you've got cleaning organizations, so it's no longer as relevant that way because you pay the company, and then it's up to the company to pay a living wage.
And that's the other part of this. Most of us do use cleaning companies.
I think if you went across the industry as a whole, you probably find that more than half are using a cleaning company. How do we know what they're paying their. Their actual cleaners? That person that comes in, does a great job for you may only be taking home, you know, 15, 20 bucks an hour, which is not exactly a lot of money these days. And when you're in a market like the Smokies, where it may take you another half hour or 45 minutes to drive to the next job, that's a lot of downtime for them too. I'm, I'm for it. I just, I, I just feel like it needs to be done in a way that makes it clear that you're expressing your appreciation for their job and not feeling obligated to do it because they're possibly not getting paid enough.
[00:09:43] Speaker A: Are you looking for a change?
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[email protected] careers theshortermshop.com careers all right, let's go ahead and take a look at this Facebook group that brought this, this post that on Facebook that brought this to our attention, which there's been several of them lately in several different groups, all of which are part of our community. If you can find us, of course, smarter Short term rentals on Facebook is our big 75,000 people in there at the time of this recording.
And the, the op on this thread said they found an envelope and do you think it's okay for our cleaners to be asking for, for tips? And it's very much on the no side of things. Almost most of these, these comments are saying nope, no, no way. No, no. They're all one word. Tacky.
Nope. No, no, no. Tacky. No, no. I hate them as a guest and I'm telling you I hate that as a guest. I'm sitting there like, well, do you not tip to cleaner? You should be tipping the cleaner. I tip everybody. But again, maybe it's because I, I just tip a lot and I just don't understand this mentality here. So here's one that said no hosted and clean my own SDRs. I would never allow that specifically in a high end str.
I did have a checkout note that said if you leave a tip, we would refund that amount in the cleaning fee as my helpers were inspired and motivated by tips. So if a guest left $10, we refunded $10. That's. I mean, how do you even. That's a lot of work. I don't even know how to keep track of all that. But that I don't recommend. I would not do that. There's a lot of tacky. I'm seeing the word tacky repeatedly here and I disagree.
I feel, I feel the exact opposite as a, as A guy that's staying in the house. I feel like I got a little class If I leave $100 bill on the countertop. And I'm a little offended that I'm being called tacky. Now. I understand that what they're saying is asking for the tip is tacky. That I understand. And maybe in the defense, we don't have any of these non tip people on the show today.
So let's, let's play devil's advocate. And maybe what they're saying is that if somebody wants to tip, go ahead and let you know, leave the $100, leave the $20 bill. But asking for it, I think is, is the problem there. And again, I don't have a problem with them asking for it. But where do you stand on that?
[00:12:50] Speaker B: It depends. Depends on how it's asked. In that particular post, you'll notice that they, they included a photo of the, of the note or the envelope. And like, I would not be happy to have that signed by the management. Makes it sound like me, the owner. And then that also brings up the question like, am I really going to pass the tip along?
I would be fine. In fact, I'm even thinking about this now that you brought it up about putting little signs in my places saying that it's okay to tip, you know, if you choose to something I have to think of the right wording that, you know, something I'd be okay with.
[00:13:21] Speaker A: Yeah, sorry.
I agree. This, this post that we're referring to has a tip envelope. It's very old school looking and at the bottom of it it says the management. And it's like, you know, it looks like it was signed by management.
And is this, I would say, is tacky? I would say this is tacky because to me this looks like, first of all, why do we need an envelope? Why are we trying to be discreet here? There's no other people in this house other than you. Because you rented this house. It's not like this is almost like the type of envelope you would find in church, you know, like as the, the, the thing is being passed down the aisle. Of course they don't. My church doesn't do that anymore. You just do it on your phone. Right. So. But when I was a child, this is exactly what would have been in the, you know, the bucket as it came down the aisle. Although it would have had some different language. But that I understand we're trying to be discreet with like how much money did you put in the envelope? Or something like that.
So the envelope really doesn't even make sense in this scenario because why don't you just put $20 on the countertop, you know, so I'll give them that. I would say that this particular envelope that we're looking at right now, as a matter of fact, for YouTube purposes, if you happen to be watching on Short Term Shop plus or YouTube, because I think we are going to release this on Short Term Shop Plus a little bit early, I'm going to go ahead and share screen on this real quick and just so you can see what we're talking about here. It is rather tacky. It's just kind of a tacky, you know, labeled to from the housekeeper. So it's a little bit personal there. But you know, the management, again it looks like the owner of the home or the manager, property manager almost is looking for the, the tip. So that I, that I agree with.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I will say there was a point in the past where one of my cleaning crews was leaving an envelope similar to that, but they were using the same envelope over and over and over.
[00:15:16] Speaker A: Meaning the exact same envelope.
[00:15:19] Speaker B: Yeah, the exact envelope. They would just take the money out, leave the same envelope and you know, it started looking kind of crappy, you know, that's it. It just kind of went against the whole idea that the house is clean.
So, you know, I did put a stop to that and told them if they were going to do it, they needed new, you know, there was had to be a new envelope every time.
If you're going to get a $20 tip, you can afford, you know, an 8 cent envelope or whatever.
[00:15:44] Speaker A: So yes, I agree there. So I think we've got a discovery here. And it's not that the actual tipping is the problem.
Maybe I'd like to talk to one of these no way people, these tacky, no way people on this thread, but maybe just the way that they were asking for it. So I think that's a, that's a pretty good point. That'll be our point number two. How do we go about doing this? Maybe we do need to get some sort of classy, you know, sign that goes on the wall or on the countertop. I don't like signs. It's, you know, I feel like they're telling me what to do. It's like this, the Tesla song, you know. But I did, you know, I saw years ago when I first started, my cleaner was doing something exactly like this and I went out and bought custom envelopes. I even put like her name on them, you know, and so that, that way People didn't think they were coming from me. And you can get these. You can just Google tip envelopes, gratuity envelopes. There's plenty of options out there on hospitality provider websites, etc.
So that might be a decent way to go. But I think maybe it would be better just to either have some sort of sign on the countertop or no sign at all, and just let people tip. Or maybe we put it in our messages. Do we put it in an auto message? Tips are welcome but not required in the. In the checkout message that's going to their phone. That's not a terrible idea.
[00:17:04] Speaker B: No, that's not. Or, you know, or guidebook even. In fact, probably a little more subtle.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:09] Speaker B: And always fresh.
[00:17:11] Speaker A: Fresh and clean. I like to encourage tips, but do I need to go out of my way to encourage the tips? Maybe not. See, this podcast is changing a little bit here. The vibe is changing because when we first started, I just assumed that all these people were saying, no, don't allow tipping. It's tacky. But now I think I'm uncovering it's the envelope that they don't like here. You know, maybe.
[00:17:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: Let's read a couple more comments. I think it's a bad idea.
That being said, if.
If you found my advice helpful, feel free to DM me for my Venmo account and leave a token of your appreciation. Thank you, Kyle, for the joke there. Good job. I look forward to helping you again in the future. So he's making a joke. Tipping is tacky. But feel free to tip me for my Facebook comment. That's funny. Okay. Good job there, buddy.
Okay, here we go. Signed the management.
That would be you that see this. This is what's going on here. You're right. It's the management that these folks are having a problem with. And I think I agree with that.
[00:18:10] Speaker B: Yeah, no, yeah. My cleaners do not speak for me.
So, you know, we are in a culture right now. I mean, it's been. You know, it's been in the press that there's a bit of a tipping fatigue, you know, because you're being asked to tip in situations or you're given the option to tip in situations that may never have occurred to you before.
So I'll tell you, back when. Back when I traveled a lot for business, and, I mean, I traveled a lot for business, people didn't know that it was customary to tip your housekeepers, you know, the cleaning team. You know, I'd always leave some appropriate tip in my. In the hotels. And, and it is because those people generally were paid very little. Especially once you get outside the U.S.
you know, a two dollar tip, it could be a really big deal. This was a long time ago when $2 was something. You know, today I, I don't know where we're at on that. I would, I still tip when I stay in hotels, you know, at least for the housekeeping team. I still tip under traditional circumstances. But hey, look, I'll be honest, when I pick up a carry out at the counter, I don't feel like I need to tip. I mean, I don't tip in McDonald's. Why would I tip in another place?
There is, I, I can understand that fatigue, you know, and, and also the, the psychology being put on the spot sometimes with, you know, you're sitting there in a position you would never occur to you to tip and all of a sudden, you know, you're, you're doing your card tap on the register and there's a little choice, a little menu there to pick your tip amount. You know, I don't like the pressure.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree to a certain extent. You go to the chalk, you go to the chocolate store over there where near. Chuck and I nearly live near each other. I don't know if you do the chocolate thing, but my favorite chocolate place tip and I'm like, for a piece of chocolate, what are we doing here? But I'll be honest, most of the time I, I say yes because, and it's, it's a, it's a 20 year old kid or an 18 year old kid and I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna tip this person. Sometimes I go a little heavy on it because just because, you know, I, I feel like they, they deserve it. You know, they're getting out there, they're trying to make a buck. Trying to, trying to get somewhere and, and good for them.
[00:20:10] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:20:11] Speaker A: Now a couple comments here. I disagree with no guests pay enough.
And if they want to leave a tip, they will without being prompted. Okay, I get that, I get that, but that's to me that's a little, you know, borderline anti tip there.
Definitely a no, I rather pay a good cleaner more than for this. Sorry though, this doesn't make sense. Pay a good cleaner.
I don't know what this person's trying to say. Sorry. Somebody says I'd be embarrassed to do that.
I run a cleaning company. We've done STRs for years. No, no, no. That's tacky as hell.
My goodness.
Again, are they talking specifically about the envelope?
Nobody's addressing that in this Facebook thread with 200 something comments. So it's difficult to figure out. All right, well I'm down with the tip.
Maybe we need to come out with some sort of Etsy tip sign that we can put on the countertops and maybe that's a good way to do it. I think the envelope is what we're causing a lot of friction here.
[00:21:17] Speaker B: I'll see if I can't have it online by tomorrow.
Don't forget the tip when you buy it.
[00:21:23] Speaker A: $20 for the Etsy sign. Yeah. Okay. All right. I'm down with the sign. I'm down with the tipping. Again.
Everybody on out of 200 comments here saying no but I.
It's difficult to tell whether they're just referring to the envelope or not. I agree. Envelope. I'm probably out on that. The tipping. I am all in on that. Please tip your tip your waitress. We'll be here all night.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: Yep. Please do.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: And you can find Chuck. He does one on one coaching sessions for short term shop plus as do I.
Did we miss anything?
[00:21:56] Speaker B: No, we covered everything here.
[00:21:58] Speaker A: All right. I, I wish I to a certain extent that we had some anti tip person just for you know, back and forth on this but we didn't. We were both pro tip on this.
That was not preconceived by the way. It just kind of happened.
[00:22:11] Speaker B: So feel free to if you're watching this on YouTube, put it in the comments.
[00:22:16] Speaker A: There you go. Tell us whether you think tips are a good idea or not a good idea when staying overnight rentals. Yeah, I'm all about it then. And I always go to Disney, you know get cost a fortune to stay at Disney and I always get upset if I don't have at least a $20 bill in my wallet. But the problem is when you go to Disney as Truck is also a Disney junkie, having an extra $20 bill in your wallet at the end of Disney is probably not very likely.
No.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: And it means that they didn't do their job to get it out of your to get get it from you before you got back to your room to leave.
[00:22:49] Speaker A: Yes, I'm actually going next week and I cannot wait. But and I, I will try to remember to keep a couple of fresh bills in my wallet for such purposes. So there you go. Tip or not. Totally up to you. No right or wrong answer on this. You got two opinions from two veterans. Been doing this a long time and we both agree that tipping is good but the envelope we agree. I think it is tacky so there you have it. A short term rental management.
Chuck. You want to say goodbye?
[00:23:16] Speaker B: Goodbye.
[00:23:17] Speaker A: All right. Don't overthink it.
