[00:00:02] Speaker A: This is Short Term Rental Management, the show that is all about short term rental property management with your host, yours truly, Luke Carl.
Hey now, Short Term Rental Management. I've got a property manager on the call today, Mr. Stephen Volt, which I would also, I'd like to start a band with you. Really? Have you ever been in the music world?
[00:00:30] Speaker B: I, you know, played instruments growing up, but that, that turned out not to be my talent. But yeah, it's either like a band or, you know. Are you related to Hussein Bolt? Like, no.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: Oh, that didn't cross. Even though I am.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: A runner, I'm certainly not.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: I know. I feel like I'm under leveraging that last name, but here we are.
[00:00:47] Speaker A: But we could be Stephen in the Bolts. I think that would be great.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: I like that. I like it. Luke. I'm in.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
So tell me about the. Let's go back to the beginning, you know, like, what do you want us to know about. About you and, and your real estate journey?
[00:01:02] Speaker B: Oh, man, what a. What a good question.
You know, we. Yeah. Married to my, my wife. And you know, after we got married, we had the opportunity to buy a duplex as like long term rental. And we kind of did the house hack thing, which, which was first, I'll just say, like totally catalytic to everything that followed that because is that duplex appreciated.
We were then able to. To sell that and buy the home that we live in. And, and anyways, the kind of origin story for the short term rental side was, you know, I've always wanted to get my pilot's license. It's been a dream, like, yeah, always wanted to do that. And there's some summers, you know, where I would go down. There's kind of an airport in the local area. We live and just like do some work down there. And I came home and was talking to my wife about it and just like, oh man. Like, I've always wanted to do this, but there's just no way we'll ever be able to like, financially afford to do this.
This just feels like flushing money down the drain. And she, she's like, well, like, that's not true. Like, it is if you say that. But like, let's take a look and see. Like, what would we need to do? What would the situation need to be for that to make sense and to be possible?
And so we started like, you know, well, we, we've done, we've done real estate, long term rental. Obviously, like, that worked out really well.
And then, you know, I got, I got drinks with a Buddy of mine, and he was showing me the numbers that he was doing with his condo in Seattle. And I was like, dude, like, that seems insane and illogical. Like, how is that possible? And so anyway, thus started the evolution of, of us kind of down the well, what would it look like to do a short term rental? And my wife and I, we actually live in the Seattle area.
And you know, we started looking around our area and just the numbers, like, didn't really make sense. Then we started looking a little bit further out and still it was like, okay, this could work. But like, we weren't, we weren't seeing, you know, that the returns that like, really were like, oh my gosh, we have to do that. And so as we started looking further, the conversation then became like, well, does it matter if it's, you know, a five hour drive or a five hour flight? Does it matter if once we're getting on a plane? Does it matter where it is in the country?
And so we were like, yeah, not really. And so we just started looking further and further out. And you know, this was back in 2021 and kind of stumbled upon the Poconos. I'd never been out there. All of my connotations with it were like, where are the like, champagne glass hot tubs? And you know, like, your grandparents went on their honeymoon there, you know. But I saw the numbers and I was like, this is insane. Like, if this is real, this would be well worth the headache of buying a home over in Pennsylvania, even though we live in Washington. And so we started doing kind of due diligence on it and bought our first, first property out there.
And we bought it. It was a four bed, two bath, almost 2,000 square feet, directly across the street from a lake.
A really just unique look and character. We bought it for 310 and you know, which again, for Seattle prices was just like mind blowing. And then, you know, we did the full, like renovate, not renovation, but, you know, interior design, some small renovations, installed the hot tub, installed air conditioning, did all that stuff. And from closing to going live, we did it in under 45 days.
Um, so that was just harder than I've ever worked in my life to get that, get that up and going in that time period. Um, and you know, so we got it up and going and, and that, that started again. I can talk about how that first year went. Um, but yeah, that, that's kind of how, how we got started with, with our short term rental journey.
[00:04:38] Speaker A: And then you got hooked.
You were already hooked. You were Obsessed to the point where you couldn't even sleep. I can. I know. And it.
And then you said, how am I going to do this again?
Because buying houses is expensive.
So you decided to do it for other people. Is that fair to say so?
[00:05:01] Speaker B: Truthfully? And this is the part where, where I would say we learned a lot in the, in the first year and a half. And the first thing I'd say about growing a property management company, if that's something you're thinking about, is, is let. Let two things. One is get through a full cycle if you have the opportunity to buy a house or even just, you know, do an arbitrage or something like that where you can experience a full cycle of the market you're in to understand what happens.
That gave us a ton of insight to understand before we start managing other people's homes. Like we need to know. We need to know, you know, build our team and, and do all that. Cause we learned a lot in the, in the first year, you know, so, so yeah, basically that, that first year we worked really hard and did all the stuff and you know, we, I think we. The top line. We did like 80, 85k in year one, which was. We were just blown away. And then, you know, as we start looking at how everything balanced out, we realized that like, okay, we actually also spent 85,000 on capex stuff and you know, roof leaks and hot water heaters and about that, like, you name it. And so we broke money, lost a little bit of money or we broke even, you know, and lost a little bit of money. But we were like, maybe this will turn around and start working and, and that.
And so we did another six months and ended up again just with the Capex stuff that we, that we had to do with the home ended up continuing to, to break even or lose money on it.
And so with that, you know, we started asking those questions a just like what were the learnings from that? What happened? We ended up selling that first house we bought after, after a couple of years.
And at that point we had started managing one or two other homes out there for people.
But it gave us this window into a understanding when buying remotely for short term rentals. You know, what, what were the, what were the missteps? What were the huge wins that we did? And we understood as we're now chatting with homeowners and helping them get up and going, how to avoid some of the mistakes that we made and, and set, you know, both just realistic expectations for what to expect in that first year and A half.
Um, but there was, as I said, there was a ton of learning that happened in that first, that first year and a half that really has. Has helped shape us and help grow the success that we have now.
As we, you know. Now, now we're, we've continued over the last three years, three and a half years to slowly and steadily kind of grow it, Grow it to what it is now. But. Yeah.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: And how many units are we managing right now?
[00:07:28] Speaker B: So right now, live, we're at about 14 under contract. We're at about 23.
Uh, yeah. And a couple of those are big design projects that we're actively working on and doing installs and such a fun.
[00:07:41] Speaker A: And difficult process also.
[00:07:44] Speaker B: I know, man. Yeah, yeah, we're.
That's the question right there. It is a nightmare. It is. And it's so much work, man. And you. What I tell homeowners is, like, we can never charge enough to adequately compensate us for the amount of work it is actually to, like, furnish a home and get it up and going. But two sides. That one is. Honestly, I do, I love it. I, it's, you know, I, I, I used to work down at Disney World, so I've got experience and background in hospitality and just creating environments and experiences for people like, just, Just brings me alive and so on a second.
[00:08:17] Speaker A: So wait, we're, We're.
First of all, I love Disney.
[00:08:21] Speaker B: I, me too.
[00:08:22] Speaker A: 14 to 28. You've. Is that, Is that the correct number? Did I get that right?
[00:08:26] Speaker B: Right. Right now we're at 14 live, and we've got 23 under contract. So over the next few months, we'll be, we'll be up to 23.
[00:08:33] Speaker A: Up to 20. So you got nine more coming?
[00:08:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:37] Speaker A: How did you get nine? Like, right now, you're, you're, you're, you're. You've got almost doubled in a short period of time. So people.
[00:08:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:44] Speaker A: Word of mouth or how are we finding them?
[00:08:47] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a really good question.
Two things that I would say is, one is, you know, the market that we went into, we spent a lot of time saying, like, hey, where are the gaps?
And how can we come in and fill those? And so one of the gaps was just like, professional, organized, polished. There wasn't a lot of property managers. And again, I probably should say, because there are some. There are some really polished, really guys doing fantastic work out in the Poconos. On the property management side, there's just not a ton. And so we really came in on the website side on the design like all of that stuff, professional, polished, organized. And so we're attracting those people. When they find our website, they can see that difference. And so, um, the website is a big one. And then the second one, we partner with a number of different agents and companies similar to what you guys do that help people buy these homes and then, and then pass them, pass them to us and say like, hey, this is, you know, the highest rated property manager out in the Poconos.
Professional, organized, you know, polished, all that. So, so we, we get a bunch.
[00:09:54] Speaker A: Of old people that don't care. Basically.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: There. There are a few guys out there that are doing really good work and then there's. There's a number that are just kind of phoning it in or again, just kind of not, not taking it super seriously. So.
[00:10:06] Speaker A: Right. They're old school. They. They, you know, they've, they've done their, their. It's just very, it's very common. It's common. It's a normal. In every vacation town in America. The, the. I live in one, you know, the guy down. Right down the street that they have no idea. They have no idea that you're supposed to change your prices, you know, like.
[00:10:25] Speaker B: Yeah, man, a hundred percent y.
[00:10:28] Speaker A: And so you're working hard, you're hustling. That's. That's what's going on here.
[00:10:31] Speaker B: You know, this is the hardest I've ever worked in my life.
[00:10:34] Speaker A: It's going to get. I hate to tell you, it's going to get harder because you bring on nine new owners, they're going to be nine pain in the ass is what that's going to.
[00:10:42] Speaker B: Oh, well, that. And just again, the, the people side of it, how we grow the team and every. I mean, we've changed property management software three times now, and each time is a nightmare and a headache. But, but it's because you hit these ceilings of like, we need different processes and we need different people to get to the next level.
So you're an engineer.
[00:11:02] Speaker A: I'm thinking here, is this, is this fair to say? Or maybe in another life you were an engineer.
[00:11:06] Speaker B: I don't know what I am, man. I think I'm just like adhd and I just constantly amount over.
[00:11:14] Speaker A: Yeah, ADD is a wonderful thing. It works for me. I have a wonderful dude.
[00:11:19] Speaker B: I fought it forever and, and did all the things to like, try and not get out over my skis and over commit. And then I've just kind of gone through this evolution of saying, like, man, I think like, I can build the plane as I Fly it. And again, like, very responsibly and like, you know, all that, but, but really lean into, like, hey, what, what can I build if I, if I go.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: After it and you have people in your life holding that back. As a guy that's in a, you know, I think I'm quite, maybe a little older than you and quite a bit of experience.
Don't take that crap.
If it wasn't for my ADD and my all over the place, I would not be where I am today. And you're doing the right thing. Embrace it. If you have a wife, God forbid, because you're stuck with her friends, you know, if they're telling you that, you know, or like when you were a child, if there was teachers saying you needed a pill, then this is not a good thing. We need to embrace the way we are and use it to our advantage. I maintain you met, we mentioned running earlier because of your last name. I maintain the excess of this because it can or cannot be an issue.
I maintain that by, by being a runner. It, I, I, it keeps me, you know, level, keeps me level.
When I go out, I get a run done, I can come home and I have the, I have the best thoughts and ideas when I'm out there.
[00:12:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:48] Speaker A: Because it's keeping my brain this add, whatever you want to call.
Yeah.
Any, any not number of diagnosable whatever. Right.
[00:12:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:56] Speaker A: I don't care. Like, whatever it is, I found ways to make it work for me and thank God, with the help of my wonderful wife, who's very supportive and understands me, has wanted to choke me several times over the years.
But I, I, the running does help me tremendously. And I'm sure you have something, meditation, whatever it may be, that helps with it as well. We need to embrace it. What I'm getting at needs to be embraced and not, it should not be made, made like it's a, it's a disadvantage or a bad thing.
[00:13:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:31] Speaker A: And I'm talking about any sort of mental, you know, states or situations that a human finds. And if you have a therapist, for instance, that tells you this is bad, we need to work on this. Screw them, Screw you. You don't need to work.
In other words, this is not a problem.
It's a positive. This is me and we're going to figure out how to make this work in my life.
[00:13:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:56] Speaker A: Did I go way too down the hall there?
[00:13:58] Speaker B: No.
I would tend to agree. I think my wife is incredible and encouraging. And again, the alignment on that is what gives me, again, the drive to keep going on this. The other thing that I would say is a learning process. Just from the first year and a half of us owning the property is I had the opportunity to. It's funny, you know, my best friend growing up lived down the street from me. We went to college and kind of did separate things. And as we were starting the short term rental journey, I was like, hey. He just did this massive renovation on his house and he's, you know, really got a lot of. A lot of financial skills and knowledge. And so I was running through this plan with him. He was like, hey, can I, can I like, do this with you?
And so we've been building this business now together for three and a half, four years. And one of the most helpful thing, again, I wouldn't say there's no holding back, but he'll help me. I will tend to make emotional decisions and he will help me see the logical side in a way that has been just incredibly beneficial for many different things as this company and business has grown. And so, uh, it definitely is helpful though, to have the right mindset, people around you, um, when you're making these big decisions that, that can help you see it from a different side. And, and yeah, so that, that definitely has been a huge part of it. Also. He's.
[00:15:16] Speaker A: Embrace it, embrace it, embrace it. Use it to your advantage. You can be boring or you can be.
You can be average or you, you can.
And you can let people tell you that, that what you are, what you are is less than.
Or you can take it and run with it and take over the whole world, which is what I did. Yep.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: I still have problems with it all the time and my wife wants to choke me regularly and so. Good. But it's okay, you know, it's okay.
[00:15:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:44] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:15:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:44] Speaker A: I always do the right thing and. And, you know, I take care of her and I protect her.
[00:15:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:50] Speaker A: And it's a wonderful thing. So I have lots of questions.
What are we gonna bring more on? I mean, we do need to calm down there, you know, maybe. Or think about it. Right. So are we gonna.
[00:16:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:03] Speaker A: Time. Because going from 14 to 50 is there.
[00:16:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:07] Speaker A: You know, are we going to do this in baby steps or has the phone stopped ringing? Where are we at right now?
[00:16:13] Speaker B: Yeah, so. So definitely the phone hasn't stopped ringing.
You know, when my wife and I bought our property out there for you three and a half, four years ago, that was all of our money. We went, we went all. Not, you know, not, not like we were obviously, like, we Used a ton of wisdom with it, but, like, as far as our investable money, that was every. Everything that we could do. Um, and. And so we went in with a mentality that's like, this has to work. Like, there's no plan B, like, this has got to work. And, you know, and so as we've been growing, I think one of the things that's made people come to us is that same mentality where it's. Our goal is not to become the biggest property manager. Our goal is to be the best and to always know that, like, these people are entrusting us with. With. With their homes.
And so, you know, I. I think the phone hasn't stopped ringing. We've certainly got more selective about the. You know, we. Our average rating across all of our properties right now is 4.95.
And we take that really, really seriously.
Until someone can. Can prove me otherwise, with the number of properties we manage, we're the highest rated property manager out in the Poconos, and we really take that seriously and pride ourselves on that. And so, so, you know, I would say, I don't really know. I have to imagine, you know, there's a pretty direct correlation between size of property management company and their average rating. Um, and so, you know, I think there will be a spot, you know, once we. I think that for some reason, again, I have no data or anything to back this up, but that 30 to 35 properties feels like about as big as you can get in any given market. Before, like, I don't know what the issues come up. You might have, you know, you've talked to a ton of people about this.
But all that being said is really, right now, I would say that's kind of like we want a really good portfolio of, you know, 30 to 35 properties. I've just talked to enough people to know that once you get bigger than that, the operational stresses that come into play, you know, can. Can start to lead to things that. That you don't want. So that's kind of what our. What our thought process is right now.
[00:18:12] Speaker A: It's a great thought process, and I will say with a lot of your competition doesn't even do reviews. They're not using Airbnb, you know, so that's something to consider.
Yeah, yeah. And you may move away from that at some point with the direct booking. That's what your competition is doing. They don't want to deal with review. Property managers in general don't want to deal with reviews.
[00:18:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
[00:18:39] Speaker A: And.
And I will. I'M not offering advice here, but I would probably bump that down to 4.85 right now. You know what I mean? Like, don't, don't set such a high expectation that you're going to end up failing 4.95.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:50] Speaker A: Brutally. That's as hard. And it's, it's hard, hard to maintain. And I will, I will agree with you. I do agree with you that if you get above 35 or 40, there's no way you can maintain that.
Yeah, yeah. But, but Stephen, the good.
If you go bigger, which with your hustle, you can and will, you can sell it later. I don't know if you know that you can sell it for a percentage of ebitda. Now, of course, the percentage is very low because when you sell it to, you know, Joe's. Joe's Poconos cabin.
[00:19:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: Rentals.com or whatever.
[00:19:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: There's no guarantee that your clients are going to stay with that new owner.
[00:19:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:28] Speaker A: It is a sellable asset, which is nice. Yeah. So I like it. I like the 35. I think that's a great goal. I think that's a great goal.
[00:19:38] Speaker B: Yeah. See, we'll see his stuff again. I think just that mentality that it's like we're not far enough removed from knowing that feeling as a homeowner where, like they got bills every month and, and we, we are expected. You know, there's an expectation of.
And so, so I'm just very mindful of, of my own time, our team's time, our resources and making sure that like we're not growing our. Our primary job is to help the homeowner achieve the goals they have set for their property. Our goal is not to, you know, our primary goal is not to grow a property management company. I just fully believe as we serve our homeowners, the growth on the other side will come naturally.
But keeping. Keeping our eyes on the primary goal of what, what we're here to do.
[00:20:20] Speaker A: Absolutely. Fear not. Saturation.
When you are the cream of the crop, you will rise to the top.
Come learn from me. The best in the business. Voted 19 time World's Greatest Landlord. Luke Cash Flow
[email protected] where you will learn to be the best in your field and the world's greatest landlord.
We are teaching all the best practices in the world of vacation rentals and we would love for you to join
[email protected].
so what is your current property management software?
[00:21:03] Speaker B: Yep.
So we pivoted over to guesty as of probably nine months Ago.
Yeah. So we're currently using guest native for our main pms.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: You like it?
[00:21:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, we. Again, I can do a quick flyover of. We started off just when we first started with our own property. Initially we started with just linking our calendars on Airbnb and vrbo and honestly, it worked great. The only reason why we pivoted off of that was we just wanted some additional support on at the time, like automated messaging across both platforms, you know, door code generation, all that kind of stuff. So we started with Lodify, which.
Which was the lowest, like, lowest cost option that seemed like it would do what we needed it to do at the time. So we started that and then as we grew the number of properties and started to get to, you know, four or five, we started to run into just scalability issues. And that support, customer support was a big one. And so then we switched over to this startup called Journey that touted very flashy features. And, you know, that, that, that, yeah, just ended up not the. Again, the customer support side of it was just not there at all.
And so, yeah, then we, we jumped ship again and switched everything over to guesty and have been incredibly.
Yeah, just happy, impressed again. Every, Every property management software has its flaws and we're. We're figuring those out. But.
But overall been. Been really happy with it.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: You're definitely an engineer.
You like the numbers, right? You look at the spreadsheets a lot.
[00:22:46] Speaker B: If I had more time. I do. I love it. I just know that, like, my best time, if I can delegate that, because again, I think, like, I most come alive with, like, how do I create experiences, take care of customers, take care of homeowners. But I do. I. I do.
[00:23:00] Speaker A: It's.
[00:23:00] Speaker B: It's true.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: You'll hire soon. You'll hire and then. And then your life will get easier and. But right now you're hustling and that's great. It's. I admire it. You're getting me fired up.
[00:23:11] Speaker B: Yeah, man, it's. It is fun.
[00:23:13] Speaker A: Slabs. What are we using for pricing?
[00:23:15] Speaker B: Yep. Yep. So that was another Journey, another evolution. So, yeah, we started with Price Labs, and then when we went to Journey, that property management software, part of that monthly fee was they paid for the subscription to Wheelhouse. So you switch over to Wheelhouse, did not like it, but we were kind of forced to use it because of that property management software, Journey. And so the minute we switched off of Journey, I switched back to Price Labs and we just started using a dedicated revenue management company about five months ago.
So I got rid of pricing and revenue management, but they still do that pricing.
[00:23:55] Speaker A: Okay, cool. Do your clients know? They don't care.
[00:23:59] Speaker B: They. They don't. I mean, some of them, if it's come up, talk about it, but no, they, they, they. Yeah, I haven't, I haven't directly told them that we've been doing that.
[00:24:07] Speaker A: And then, and you, like, this, this person, they're doing a good job or a big company or whatever it is.
[00:24:12] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's been, it's been, it's been good. Um, you know, I think whenever just you're starting a company like what we've done, releasing control is just so hard.
And so, you know, there's. There. It's, you know, it's a relationship. We've had to. We've worked through some stuff certainly where, where, you know, again, I've.
Hasn't. Hasn't worked out well. And we debrief it on the back end again. I want, I think one of the, the greatest things as I've been growing this is sometimes you spend money to get your time back and, and, you know, and some, some decisions, you hope increase revenue and performance and all that. And I would say overall, on average, we've, we've probably seen higher average performance.
Um, but they have given me my time back, which is worth a lot.
[00:24:58] Speaker A: Right now because you're at the phase where you're, you're hustling so hard you don't have time. Right. Like, you're, you're using every minute of the day, I would assume right now.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: I. You want to know this, this is, this is the real truth for anyone thinking about, like, oh, I could, I could manage 20 properties.
My alarm goes off at 3am, I get into the office at 4.
I work on property management stuff typically from about 4am to 9am and then I'm a pastor at a church. And so then I do a lot of my normal 9 to 5, and then I'm home every night with my family as much. As much as possible to help out.
[00:25:37] Speaker A: Nine to five.
Oh, my goodness.
[00:25:40] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:25:41] Speaker A: Okay. All right, all right. We're still. We're obviously spending a lot of time debating whether to keep that or not.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: I would assume, you know, it's, It's. It's interesting.
There's a. And you.
[00:25:59] Speaker A: You.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: I feel like you. When I, When I hear you speak. Luke, you have a lot of insight into, like, where true fulfillment purpose like this will go deep real quick for me. Um, I. There's a, There's.
There's a side I love the hospitality, the property management, the fact that I have 50 things in my brain right now that are all swirling, and I'm, like, five keyboards. And, like, I love that. It's so fun. And also, I'm very well aware that, like, what I'm building on that side, it's great, and it's providing income for people, and great. Like, it's doing really good things. But the marginal improvement to. To society, to people, to, like, what. What is the. The real purpose behind this? Like, I'm not driven by money, and so I'm building that, and it's providing wealth and all that, which is great. What I get to do here again at the church that I work at. Also, the connection for me between the way that I spend my time and getting to see, like, true change and impact happen is a. Is a side of fulfillment and purpose that I'm not. I haven't. I haven't been able to find elsewhere. And so I think, again, it's. It's interesting because it's not a binary, like, financial choice. It's a man. I.
How do I make sure that no matter what I do, I have that connection to, like, I'm building something more than just wealth. Like, I'm. I'm. I'm contributing. I'm. I'm seeing improvement in the people around me.
So. So, yeah, it's. It's. It's. I enjoy both a lot for different reasons, and I think, again, it's. It's forced me to think about what we're building differently because, again, we're accountable to our homeowners, and this is a big investment for them. So, like, they need to know that, like, we're on it. And so we. You know, we built the team to sustain it. I just think I said, like, as we've grown, it just pushes on different barriers that we got to figure out how to break through and figure out. So. Yeah. Does that make sense? Does that answer that question? I'm curious, like, your thoughts as I'm. As I'm saying this.
[00:27:53] Speaker A: 100% makes sense. Makes absolutes. I mean, I don't want to ask how old you are, but I'm kind of curious.
[00:27:59] Speaker B: Yeah. 34.
What year is it? We're 20. 25. So. 35.
[00:28:06] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. All right. Yeah. I love it, dude. I love it. Have you considered moving to the Poconos or. No?
[00:28:13] Speaker B: No, no, man.
It's so funny. You know, they say, like, Pocono mountains, and, like, oh, we got these ski mountains, and I mean, I'm In Seattle, where we got like, you love it. Epic, epic mountains. And you know, it's like these are, you know, you go out to Pennsylvania, like, these look like hills to me.
[00:28:26] Speaker A: So. So then maybe, maybe the property manager just is what it is and it stays at the 30 units and we're happy with it on the side hustle. It's a side hustle kind of deal. And. Yeah, because if you go bigger than 30, you're gonna have to move there. I mean, it's, you know.
[00:28:40] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:28:42] Speaker A: It can be done very easily from a distance. We teach people how to do it all day, every day. But, you know, if you're doing it for other people for a living with their homes and. Yeah, you're up at 30, 40 units.
[00:28:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:28:57] Speaker A: Because you're, you're, you know, you're running around in these properties checking on wood rot and water.
[00:29:02] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:29:02] Speaker A: And dealing with, with guests that didn't realize they were supposed to leave that day and all that kind of nonsense, you know.
[00:29:10] Speaker B: So, yeah, 100, 100%. You're, you're naming everything we think through and, and yeah, are figuring out how to continue to solve.
[00:29:17] Speaker A: I love it. I love it. What about the pilot thing? Do we go back to school there?
[00:29:23] Speaker B: Yeah. So we had set three kind of benchmarks for that. We had set like an income goal. What we needed to be making. We had set a. We need to be completely out of debt and then outside of our mortgage, completely out of debt. And then a time allocation. So each week do I.
This a set aside amount of time that I could actually devote towards it. And we've hit the income goal and we've, we are, as of like four months ago, completely out of debt, which is great. Um, and so now we're working on the time. Uh, how do I, how do I delegate?
[00:29:58] Speaker A: Um, I think this is your future, Stephen. You're going to be flying, but you want to do commercial.
[00:30:03] Speaker B: No, I don't, I don't. I don't really know.
I don't know what that turns into. I tend to just like, what's the next right step based on what I, what I'm trying to do. And so I don't know what it would lead to.
Um, but I just, I've always wanted to, to, to do it, so.
[00:30:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, you, you figure it out when you get in there.
Yeah, yeah, I just, if you don't mind. What does she do?
[00:30:24] Speaker B: Yeah, she. Ever since we've got three amazing, three amazing daughters and she.
It's the best man. She she gets, yeah, she, she stays at home and, and does an incredible job of, of raising them and homeschooling and the whole thing. The whole thing. So she's, she's hustling, she's hustling too. We got a six year old, a four year old and a one year old about to turn two.
[00:30:48] Speaker A: My word, my word. Six, four and one.
Y Y. Oh my goodness. You are busy. You are so busy. Yeah.
[00:30:57] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah, we're, we're doing it, man.
[00:30:59] Speaker A: This is, yeah, I love it. I'm, I'm, I've got a seven and a five.
[00:31:04] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:31:05] Speaker A: So pretty simple.
[00:31:08] Speaker B: I, what do you, what's, what's been your favorite, like what's been your favorite age range up to, up to this point?
[00:31:13] Speaker A: I'm a little older than you. My perspective is maybe a little different than it would have been.
[00:31:17] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:31:19] Speaker A: I, I'm, I'm, I'm closer to 50 than I am 40.
[00:31:25] Speaker B: I'm saying for your kids, not your age range.
[00:31:29] Speaker A: Because my perspective is I, I'm thinking of as a 35 year old version of me.
Oh my goodness. I wasn't ready. You know, you are, you've got your head on. But I, I'm, I'm grateful that I get to cherish these moments because I feel like I had that extra 10 years of getting, getting my shit together.
[00:31:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:56] Speaker A: The downside of that is that I feel like I've probably given up 10 years of that in the future, but I feel like I'm able to enjoy the moments more right now because of that. So I literally enjoy every single second of it. If anything, I get sad, I go too far the other direction and I say, oh my goodness, this moment is gone.
[00:32:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:18] Speaker A: And that's something I'm working on just to not honestly to not ruin the moments because I'm, I'm like, man, that's never, that birthday is never going to happen again, that Christmas is never going to happen again. And do you ever, do you ever have those thoughts?
[00:32:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I do again. I think that's one of the things is like in my busyness and in, in everything that we're doing, you know, one of the things that just, yeah, I, I, I hold really dear is like, you know, reason why I, I wake up at three is it doesn't, that doesn't cost my kids. Um, I'm not going to put what we're building, I'm not going to put the cost of that on my children.
And so I'm, I'm as much. And again, there's times where the evenings come up and, you know, like, today we had something happen over there in Pennsylvania yesterday, and I bought flights for tonight, and I was going to go out there, and then I got to be back here at church on Sunday, so I was going to fly out there on the red eye, do a Thursday, Friday, fly back Saturday so I can be back here on Sunday. And, you know, I do that every. Every few months, but emergency came up and I had to do it. And, you know, so there's times that come up where it's like, yeah, it impacts the family, but I just, again, I'm very focused on, like, what I'm. What am I building that's temporary versus what am I investing in? That's like, again, from my perspective, eternal. My. My children.
Like, that's a legacy that's gonna. No matter how amazing this property management company becomes, like, my family is. Is a legacy that. That will continue far beyond whatever we're building is. And so.
So, yeah, I. I think about that and.
[00:33:52] Speaker A: But it's a fine line, right, because the. The. You do as a. As a man or a woman or whoever you want the kids to see. The hustle.
[00:34:01] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:34:02] Speaker A: I know. I learned. That's probably the best thing I learned from my dad, which I got to be careful what I say because my dad does pop into the podcast occasionally. And, yeah, he's got nothing else to do, so he'll listen.
Yeah.
I would say that again, being careful, knowing that he might hear this.
The. The waking, the alarm clock, the hustle, the. The getting up early and busting your ass. And he never had a penny.
[00:34:29] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:34:29] Speaker A: Still doesn't have a penny.
[00:34:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:32] Speaker A: Is what I would say is probably the most important lesson I learned from him. And that's so that now, even though I live a completely different life than what my parents were living and still living, to be honest, that.
That is what I know. That's what I know. I'm a Midwestern, you know, it's a very Midwestern thing as well.
You know, we're too dumb to know any better. You wake up early and you work your ass off until you get frostbite, and then you go home, your football team loses, and you get drunk. That's the best, you know?
[00:35:03] Speaker B: Yeah, those.
[00:35:04] Speaker A: A lot of those things I don't do. Although my football team does lose. But, yeah.
[00:35:08] Speaker B: Yeah, you're used to that.
[00:35:10] Speaker A: The hustle, I think, is important for the kids to see, is my point.
[00:35:14] Speaker B: Well, and the resilience, like, yes, the hustle and the. Like hey, sometimes you just, you gotta like, you gotta build the endurance and the resilience to keep pushing for something you want.
So. So yeah, I think that's one thing especially that I want to instill in them is resilience. Like, you know, how we built what we got was not because, because it was super easy. It was because like we did the hard things and, and we built it and made the, you know, kept, kept pushing through it.
[00:35:38] Speaker A: So certainly love it, Love it. Well, let's, on the way out, let's talk about some new exciting things. What are you looking forward to? Have you any little software niches or bubbles that you've liked to make your life easier to improve your list?
[00:35:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:51] Speaker A: And maybe what's, what's the 2026 look like?
[00:35:55] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. So I think certainly, you know, advent of AI, not advent, but like continued evolution. AI figuring all that out, you know, in the way that we build listings that's getting way more streamlined and you know what I used to have to type out and it would take hours. Like I'm getting, getting a lot quicker on that.
So certainly just tools in the AI space. And you know, we're just continuing to improve our listings again being our goal is not to grow the biggest property management company. We're circ. We're constantly circling back to our listing saying, hey, should we reshoot photos and do it this way or you know, whatever. So, yeah, loving that. I would say, you know, um, other other things coming up we're excited about again, like these design projects, as hard as they are, have been a ton of fun. And so we're figuring out again how to do that in a scalable way. One of the things that we've just learned is like right now, the process where these people buy a home, then they find a third party designer, then they have to figure out the handyman and the electricians and the plumbers and the like to ins. Like it's just so much. And so what we're building right now is a platform where it's like, hey, we're gonna, we're gonna take this thing from top to bottom and not only show you how we can do it better, but that it's actually gonna end up saving you money because we, we stay with the process all the way through. And so seeing that come together in a way that both is scalable and profitable has been really exciting and gives us control over like, man, we get to design these houses. And it's been really fun, hard work but, but really enjoying that and Looking forward to that. And, uh, so. So yeah, I think those. Those are a couple things that. That come to mind as. As we. Yeah. As we. We continue to look forward out there.
[00:37:32] Speaker A: You got a big future. I like it. You're hustling.
I think the pilot thing is going to really take off. You like the. You like my. My. My little joke?
[00:37:41] Speaker B: It was good. It was good. Yep. Yeah, I see you.
[00:37:45] Speaker A: That was the old man in me, I suppose. But yeah, man, that's great. Well, how do I find you? Are you on Instagram or something?
[00:37:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Take a look at website Pocono Lodging Co.
We're all. Yeah. Facebook, Instagram, Pocono Lodging Company.
You know, and what I would say too, is like one of the things when we got started, there's a. There's. There's a. There's. There's a few things. A few key things. If you're thinking about coming into the Poconos. It's a very incredibly unique market for a number of different factors, and there are some major pitfalls that again, we had a rough experience that first we made it top line. We made a lot of money, which was like the bright shiny object underneath it. We lost money because of some. Some things that we would have done differently. And so again, like, feel free if you're just getting started. Again, I know like, we're the, you know, poking a lot management company but. But I'm a huge advocate of like, help the next guy in line. Help the next guy or lady in line and so reach out.
Connect with us again, website Pocono Lodging Co.
If you got questions, Happy, happy to help jump in and yeah, help help you avoid some of the stuff that we did because it's a. Yeah, it's a great market to.
To. To jump into if you can find the right properties and get the right. Get the right stuff into place.
[00:39:01] Speaker A: Do you think you'll buy more real estate at some point?
[00:39:05] Speaker B: I. Yeah, 100% right now. Again, the. The. The. The time.
Time value for us is much more like we're the. What we're building on the management side is what we're dedicating our time to.
But one of the things that the property management side has helped us figure out is like, what homes are truly profitable? What homes do you look at and like, oh my gosh, this one's going to make 120,000 a year. That doesn't mean you're actually going to make money on it. We see a lot of people fall into that. Like, oh, air DNA says I can do 150k on this.
Okay. Like, you know, and so, so we actually now have this window in to see, like, which homes are truly profitable, Net, you know, and so I. I think we're. We're waiting for the right time for us, just time wise as well as opportunity wise to. To jump in and do something cool. So. Absolutely. If, you know, when the right time and opportunity comes along, I think you're doing it right. Yeah.
[00:39:59] Speaker A: Good job. All right, buddy. Appreciate it. Appreciate it.
[00:40:02] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. Thanks for the opportunity.
[00:40:04] Speaker A: My pleasure. You ever need any. Anything from me, just let me know. And as always, at short term rental management, don't overthink it.
