How We Grew to 10 Properties

[00:00:02] Speaker A: This is short term rental management, the show that is all about short term rental property management with your host, yours truly, Luke Carl. All right, here we go. Bobby and Nicole, they're awesome, man. Little ditty about Bobby and Nicole and, man, they're just doing the damn thing. They've got jobs and they've just chipped away one property at a time to make a better life for themselves. Doing a little bit of co hosting, and it's just very refreshing to talk to awesome people that have, you know, made some strides to do a little better and make a better future for themselves and their kids. So that's what we're going to talk about today on this episode of short term rental management. This episode of the short term management show is brought to you by short term rental, long term wealth. This is the book in the STR space written by my lovely wife, Avery Carl. It has hundreds of reviews on Amazon and it will teach you literally everything you need to know about STR, short term rental, long term wealth. The book wherever books are sold. Here we go. Short term rental management is going to be an awesome day today. And we have some really cool guests. We got Bobby and Nicole. They are in Orlando. They have been buying about a property a year for a number of years, and they both have day jobs and children and the whole thing. So, guys, welcome to the party. Talk to me about how you got started in real estate. [00:01:46] Speaker B: Totally. Yeah. So I actually, I've been a business development and sales representative for company for 16 years. So of course, as a sales representative, you start at little to no salary, right? It's basically all commission. You make very little. So there's not a whole lot of cash to go around to buy houses and investments and that of things. So, long story short, I saved up enough cash to go out and purchase something with the goal of finding something that would create more cash flow outside of my w two. So real estate obviously always tends to come to the top of the list when you're just looking around the Internet of things to do, things to invest in. A guy named Grant Cardone, I'm sure. Obviously everybody knows who grant is. When you search real estate, you never stop hearing about Grant Cardone. He pops up everywhere. So I stumbled across his university and bought his how to invest in real estate or how to, I forget what it's called, how to get started investing in real estate or something like that. And grant, of course, he preaches the, hey, you got to buy multifamily property. Don't buy one property. Make sure you're buying those multi units, so you always have somebody in there renting. If somebody leaves, you're not losing, obviously, the, you know, any money with the expenses you have on the property. So read that book and thought, what the hell? You know, I have some money to invest. Let's try this real estate thing. So I know a realtor from a crossfit gym that we frequent on a regular basis. So reached out to her, said, hey, this is what I'm interested in. Do you know anybody, or do you guys, you know, specialize in those type of investments? Well, she knew somebody on her team that did. Turns out that was Wade that works for you guys now at the short term shop. So, got introduced to Wade, and the initial goal was to try to find that multifamily property, and keep in mind, this is the beginning of 2021. So this is where you had to pay a lot for a property. There was a lot of competition. Interest rates obviously were super low. There's a lot of good deals out there, but I could not get anything landed. I couldn't. You know, we put in multiple offers. I don't know. It's probably a mixture of me just not knowing what the heck I was doing, and then a mixture of just other investors coming in with more cash that were able to get these deals. So after a number of offers that we put in that didn't go through, Wade let me know. Hey, he was transitioning over to the short term shop and asked if I had heard of this gal named Avery. Carl, of course. I'm sure you've heard. Heard of her, Luke. So started down the biggerpockets road, so, obviously went online, I researched Avery biggerpockets, came up, listened to a few of her podcasts. Obviously, that turned into listening to YouTube videos and really just digging into the short term rental aspect of things. And being in Orlando, I thought, man, maybe this is the calling we're in one of the, what seems like the better markets in the US to invest in a short term rental property. On top of that, being able to use the property is something that really intrigued me. So I decided to go down that route, and, you know, that led into not a purchase in Orlando, but a purchase in Daytona beach, which is about an hour away from us. Same thing kind of happened in Orlando. Put in a number of offers, wasn't able to grab anything. Obviously, the budget was super tight because it was our first property. We had enough for a down payment. Um, and, uh, because of that competition, I decided to look into another market and found a condo in Daytona beach, which was. Was our first purchase and first experience with any, you know, short term rental stuff there. [00:05:42] Speaker A: So, yeah, the Orlando thing, it just makes perfect sense. Makes perfect sense. Um, okay, cool. So the first one ended up being in. In what town again? [00:05:53] Speaker B: Uh, Daytona Beach. [00:05:54] Speaker A: Daytona beach. Okay. Got it. Now, are you in still in sales right now? [00:05:58] Speaker B: I am, yep. [00:05:59] Speaker A: Okay. And are you a student of sales? I feel that sales is, like, really the biggest asset in life. You know, you got to sell yourself constantly. Are you. Maybe that's how. Is that how you found good old Uncle Grant? Which I'm. I am a fan. I love. I love him. He's a lunatic, but I am a fan. So just talk to me about sales in general. Like, have you studied it? Are you really into it? Obviously, if things maybe have taken off for you, you've been doing it for quite some time. [00:06:26] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. Yeah. Sales. Sales has a bad rap, right? Sales, like, if you're considered a sales person, it's like, oh, my gosh, I don't want to talk to you. Cause you're gonna try to sell me something. You're gonna talk me into something that I don't want. I think what I've learned in sales, really, is you're working with somebody to figure out what they want, and you're doing your best to go out and just find that. And if you become that consultant versus the person that's trying to sell them something, the first few sales are going to be difficult. But once you get that loyal base of customers, they're just going to send business your way and just becomes a little bit easier after that. So I found early on in my career that if you treat people right, if you act more as an advisor, people will come to you versus you having to go to them. And then additionally, instead of trying to find those individual sales opportunities, work with that one person that maybe know, you know, they. The person that's familiar with, you know, 100 opportunities that they could go after, partner with somebody that, you know, can recommend you, kind of thing. That's probably the biggest takeaway I've had. [00:07:35] Speaker A: I'm a big fan. I like sales. We're all selling ourselves all day, every day, and I do. It does get a bad rap. And people. Oh, you're just trying to sell me something. Well, yeah, no crap, man. You're selling yourself to your wife every single day, whether you realize that or not, you know, because she could go find a better option, quite frankly, you know, but. All right, Nicole, a little bit about you. You are military and do have a day job as well, if you don't mind. [00:07:59] Speaker C: Yes, I am in the army. Reserves have been for 20 years, hopefully retiring into this year. And I also do it support for a plastics company, so I do the logistics, it support. [00:08:14] Speaker A: How much time does that require over the past 20 years for the reserves? [00:08:20] Speaker C: So I've deployed once and that was a twelve month stint. But generally I go one weekend a month and then two to three weeks during the summertime. So basically it takes away one weekend of my time with my family and, you know, just doing double duty. [00:08:36] Speaker A: All right, well, thank you. And did you get into real estate before or after you met this gentleman? [00:08:43] Speaker C: So when I was younger, my dad bought and flipped houses back in like 2000 to 2004. So I did a lot of the dirty work with my dad. So I knew somewhat of real estate and the benefits of it. Never really invested in real estate until I met Bobbi. But prior to that I was listening to some real estate podcasts and just educating myself in that area and trying to save up money for a property. [00:09:14] Speaker A: Is your dad still around? Does he still own houses? [00:09:18] Speaker C: He does not own houses. He ended up becoming a home inspector and ran his own business for like. [00:09:24] Speaker A: 20 years, but sold the properties for various reasons, or. [00:09:30] Speaker C: Yes, just getting out of the business. [00:09:33] Speaker B: Got it. [00:09:33] Speaker A: Okay. All right, so let's talk about that. Thank you, Nicole. Let's talk about that Daytona house. And I guess just what is it? How much did it cost? How many bedrooms, et cetera? [00:09:45] Speaker B: Yeah. So purchased for. Oh, my gosh. This is where the memory comes in here. [00:09:52] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. [00:09:52] Speaker B: Okay. 400,000. It's a two bedroom condo on the beach. So it's got a literally beachfront, third floor, wraparound balcony, full beachfront. I mean, you're eye level with the Atlantic there. [00:10:05] Speaker A: Purchased what year? [00:10:07] Speaker B: Purchased 2021. [00:10:09] Speaker A: Oh, okay. 21. And this is one you had issues with? Weather? Yeah. [00:10:14] Speaker B: Yep, exactly. One of the many issues we've had there. [00:10:17] Speaker A: Learning issues. All right, what was the first issue? [00:10:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, so the first issue was actually an assessment. So, you know, we all love condo assessments. Um, here's the thing. When I purchased that property in 2021, that place was printing money. Like, that's what really short term rentals. I was like, holy smokes, why didn't I decide to do this, you know, five years ago? Granted, it's probably a different ballgame five years ago, but things are going great. I wrote a timeline down here, just so you know, I don't miss the dates, but, yeah. So purchased in 21. We listed for the first renter in August of 21 and rented the property until May of 2022. And that's when we were hit with the assessment. So the condo building decided to do a. Yeah, decided to do a complete outside concrete restoration project where they literally restore any concrete on the entire building. So this is like a jackhammer. Like jackhammer in the concrete out of the building that needs to be replaced, refilling it. So you can imagine if you're renting it in this time. It's loud. Obviously, it's not super guest friendly. Well, long story short, that assessment ended up costing us $50,000. And this is a year into, not even a year into owning the property. [00:11:41] Speaker A: Where do we come? Where do we get this $50,000? Well, luckily, can't finance it. [00:11:46] Speaker B: Right, exactly. Yeah. Yep. Yep. So, luckily, I was really good with, you know, just my plan was to use the expenses from that property and buy another property. And because that property was doing well, I was on the verge of. Okay, I've almost got, you know, the down payment here. Ready for another property. Well, that assessment basically pretty much took that whole dang thing away. So luckily the rents were really good. That first year, I built up a lot of cash. If I didn't, if I decided to put my cash in other areas, then I would have been in a different scenario. But luckily I had a big capex account saved up. I had plans of using that for another investment. I had some cash on the side to utilize for that. Obviously, when that happened, a lot of the units went up for sale. Theres an element of return on investment for that property for me. But additionally, its an hour away from our house, beachfront. So if we want to go to the beach, we can pack the kids up and literally just go to the beach for the weekend. So there is a personal use element of value that I had. And forecasting what the property was going to do based on what it did the initial twelve months, made sense to just write it out. Obviously, it would take some time to recoup that investment, but, you know, I'd get that back and then, you know, obviously it would continue to cash flows kind of time went on, so it made sense to keep it in my mind anyway. [00:13:07] Speaker A: What makes you. Why do you think it did so well? Is it, were you the only guy self managing in that building? Do you think, you know, you were just setting yourself off by not sucking at management? Or were there other elements? [00:13:21] Speaker B: Yeah, so I think part of that for sure. So I would. That building is a majority of vacation rental management companies, the larger vacation rental management companies, owners that have owned those buildings for years and years, and they, you know, maybe they just have it listed on VRBo or something. You know, Airbnb really isn't even a factor. Listings are not good. You know, photos are not good. So. Absolutely. I think, you know, when we, you know, purchase that property, you know, obviously we had the ability to do the management Monday thing and. [00:13:52] Speaker A: Hold on. What's management Monday? [00:13:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I think there's a guy named Luke that puts us on. I forget. [00:13:56] Speaker A: But just for anybody that doesn't know, what was the exception of Monday. [00:14:01] Speaker B: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. So you purchase property, the short term shop, you have the ability to attend a management Monday course, as many management Monday courses as you want to attend. And Luke will basically walk you through the, you know, from the a to z, how to run an operating short term management company. [00:14:16] Speaker A: So there you go. That, yeah. Yeah. So we do that. We teach this. You're never gonna believe it. Every Monday at the shop we have this class, and we've been doing it for years. And actually, back in the day, I used to do it on the phone before anybody knew what Zoom washing. And that's. So that's cool. You came to management Monday and. And this is not a story that's all that unheard of, especially in condos where, you know, I mean, let's be real. Okay, let's. Because I don't want to make it sound like this is some California gold rush here. Let's be real. Most people that can afford, in the grand scheme of the world, can afford a $500,000.02 bedroom condo, probably don't want to deal with toilets and guests and nonsense because they're very busy people and they have, you know, maybe their doctors, etcetera. And so what you're talking about here is not all that uncommon, and I think it will, for the most part, probably remain not all that uncommon where the entire building is property managed. And you were able to come in there and take the lion's share, you know, like, you're probably getting booked before any other unit in that building. Would you say that that's fair? [00:15:20] Speaker B: Yep. Yep. Totally. Yeah. If you look at all the listings and the quality and the photos, the biggest takeaway I got from you guys at the short term shop really, was to not take it too seriously. When I purchased that property, at the last minute, I almost hired a property management company because I was getting cold feet. It was like, well, can I really? We're working w two jobs. We've got a family. It's like all these things go through your head, but when you dumb it down, it's really not that incredibly difficult as long as you stay on top of it. But, yeah, man, I think that's just it. It's just constant evaluation of, you know, where I'm, you know, how far out booked I am with the property, the pricing, constantly changing, the photos, you know, stuff like that. [00:16:01] Speaker A: Yeah, your competition probably has terrible, terrible photos. [00:16:04] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. IPhone photos all over. Yeah. [00:16:07] Speaker A: Old school enemy method is all it is. And this is very common in condo buildings, you know, so if you occasionally, you get people that will crap on condos, and I'll be honest, I'm not a massive fan, but it's just a personal thing for me. I want a little space. I want a little breathing room in my life just for something that I'm going to stay in. I would definitely stay in a condo, though, but I, you know, they're not necessarily my favorite, but I'm telling you, if you're crapping on condos, listen to this. It's very common to go in there and just clean house because everybody else stinks at it, you know. So has there been any pushback at all from the hoa? Are other people saying, how come this guy's self managing? Have you had other. Have you had it? Well, let me ask you that question. Let's go with that one first. Any pushback from the hoa? [00:16:59] Speaker B: Oh, no. Pushback. You mean on self managing it? [00:17:02] Speaker A: Like, you can't do this kind of crap. Don't crap on my lawn. [00:17:06] Speaker B: No, no, not at all. [00:17:07] Speaker A: Not at all. Okay, great. Have the neighbors taken notice and said, I've noticed you're very booked. Would you mind telling me how you did that? Has it catching on in any way or. Not really. [00:17:17] Speaker B: Not really. You know, I think the majority of owners in the building, like their, their primary use is to use it as a vacation rental. Right. So they don't really care. [00:17:27] Speaker A: I don't care. [00:17:28] Speaker B: Yeah, there are residents there, of course. So there are some that live in the property, but, you know, majority of them have owned it for a number of years and they just, it's just their second home. [00:17:37] Speaker C: So there's a good amount of residents within the building as well. And it's also one of the condos in that area that does have a seven day limit. A lot of the condos are 30 days, so that also helps with booking. [00:17:51] Speaker A: Oh, I see. And you. So you have to rent it for a minimum of seven days? [00:17:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Correct. [00:17:56] Speaker C: Most of the other ones in Daytona beach are 30 days. [00:17:59] Speaker A: Okay. But you have no problem filling the seven day, because in a lot of markets, this is like three or four days. But no problem in your market? [00:18:06] Speaker B: No. [00:18:07] Speaker A: Okay, cool. Cool. The assessment happened before. I don't want to give it away. But the weather incident or. Correct, simultaneously before? [00:18:18] Speaker B: No, no, before. Yeah. So. Yep. So that happened, let's see, may of 2022. And then it was Hurricane Ian in 2022. In October, we had the gamut, man. We had. Obviously, we couldn't get into the condo, but I think the day after the hurricane, and they opened the bridges. So to get into, like, the main, you know, Atlantic Avenue area of Daytona, there are a few bridges that they shut down just because of the structure. They had, you know, engineers had to go and make sure they were safe to drive over. When that opened, we were able to go to the property, and there was water damage. I mean, we literally walked into, like, a puddle of water, like, in the whole unit. So the kitchen cabinets, the drywall, it was basically all ripped out. Needed to be ripped out and completely redone. So that obviously closed the property. Luckily, I had good insurance. Right. You don't have good insurance, especially if you're in a beach market. Insurance is a whole other topic. In Florida especially. But luckily, we were able to. It took three months from start to finish to bring it back online. So shut down for three months. No, rental. Back online in January of 2023. [00:19:34] Speaker A: Okay. All right. So things have been pretty smooth since then. And you started, what, shopping around and landed on another property? [00:19:41] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah. So things went smooth since then. So, in February of 23, I purchased the second property in Blue Ridge, actually. Blue Ridge, Georgia. So that came from, of course, funds that came in from that initial property, and then, of course, some tax strategy, of course, to. Obviously, to help with that initial down payment to get into that second property. Is it okay to give a shout out to a short term shop? [00:20:15] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:20:16] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. I worked with Tom in Georgia for the second property, and that was another. I put in a number of offers, stuck with it, and eventually found a little two bedroom, two bath cabin. [00:20:29] Speaker A: Let me back you up. Talk about your tax strategy. What are you talking about there? You cost Seg the condo, or what do you do? [00:20:34] Speaker B: That's exactly it. Yeah. So cost Seg the condo, which basically, we had a cost Seg company come in and put together a cost Seg study that allowed us to depreciate everything within the condo to increase the amount of refund that we were able to get at the end of the year because we also work w two jobs. You know, I'm on the higher tax percentage range, so being able to. [00:21:08] Speaker A: Do. [00:21:08] Speaker B: The cost seg on the condo, along with making sure I have all my material participation hours in and making sure everything was in line there, I was able to actually decrease the amount of income that I'm taxed on on an annual basis. So that helped contribute to putting money down for that second property, the, uh. [00:21:27] Speaker A: The short term rental loophole, as they call it. [00:21:30] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:21:30] Speaker A: Yep. [00:21:30] Speaker B: That's exactly. [00:21:31] Speaker A: Uh, who did you use for your crosstag? [00:21:34] Speaker B: Uh, this was Madison. Madison, yeah. Yona. [00:21:37] Speaker A: Yona. Yep. [00:21:38] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:21:38] Speaker A: Wonderful. Um, okay, cool. So we came over to Blue Ridge. Now, we do, we love Blue ridge at the shop. We're huge fans. We operate there. And, uh, but we do occasionally hear people, you know, um, saying some negative things about it. So how did you navigate that? I'm sure you heard these negative, negative things, and. And I don't personally own there. So I've had in the past where I've purchased in markets where people were saying things about the properties not being able to make money, but I had one there and I could say, well, mine's making some damn money, so I don't know what you're doing wrong. I don't have that in Blue Ridge. So can you speak to, you know, the process and how you work through some of that negativity and if the property is being successful today? [00:22:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I didn't really pay a lot of attention to any of the negativity. I ran the numbers. The numbers worked. I had the down payment. It fit within my budget, so I bought the property. Keep in mind, this is our second property, so we're not pros at this yet. There's still a lot of learning that we can do to make sure we're buying the right deals and the deals that are going to cash flow the absolute most. Could I bought a better deal? Yes. Is this a bad deal? No. Are we making money on this? Absolutely. So I think it's all in how you manage it. If you buy a property and like this property in Blue Ridge, if I were to buy it and then put it with a property manager, it's probably not going to do super well because they're not going to give it the TLC that we do with making sure the photos are up to date, getting them redone every year, making sure the listings optimized, making sure the pricing is optimized, and the pricing, you know, is changed according to occupancy, making sure the right amenity boxes are checked, you know, all that stuff. So, um, that's a property you have to stay on top of, you know, like any property. You're not just going to set pricing and, you know, hope for the best, you know, as long as we're staying on top of it, um, you know, reducing pricing. If we do have those gaps in bookings, to get them booked, you know, we're, you know, the property is doing just fine. So from like, hey, buy the property, throw it with a property manager. You know, maybe it might not do so well. Obviously that's relative to what property you buy and the investment. But from our perspective, you know, it's been neat. Plus, it's only, what, six and a half, 7 hours away. So it's another property that we can go use. You know, that's the joy of this, right? So if we want to drive up to the mountains, six hour drive, we can go freaking use that property. So there's an element of personal use there, just like Daytona that, you know, I mean, even if we, you know, made a little bit, you know, I think we'd still be fine with it. [00:24:10] Speaker A: So. [00:24:14] Speaker C: Another learning experience for us because it's a lot different of a market than it is for Daytona Beach. DAYTONA BeaCh, we get a lot of northern guests come down, whereas our Blue Ridge property is a lot of drive to market. So it's more weekend stay, shorter stays. So it's understanding the different markets. So that really helped us to have a better understanding and lead into exploring different markets and, and leading into, you know, the business that we created and other things. [00:24:44] Speaker A: So short term shop plus has live and recorded sessions on the following topics, creating compelling listings, marketing your STR property, setting up a new listing, managing from a distance, finding and acquiring your first or next STR live revenue management audits with the pros, analyzing an STR for gross revenue. All of this and much, much more is now available at your fingertips with short term shop plus everything you need to know to have success in the world of vacation homes and str, please join [email protected]. that's stsplus.com or stsconsultation.com. to learn more, let me ask you about the location in Blue Ridge. Do you want to be closer to town, further from town? Where is yours? And are you happy with the location? [00:25:51] Speaker B: Yeah. So I hate to say if I could go back because I think you learn from everything, but so location wise, we're at the tip top, we're in mineral Bluff, which is on the border there of North Carolina. So, you know, they say, and revenue numbers do look a little better if you're closer to downtown Blue Ridge, if you have that blue ridge address. You know, we have a mineral bluff address, so we have to make sure that we have keywords and stuff in, you know, Airbnb and Verbo to pick that stuff up, or, we think it's working anyway. But, you know, it's. I mean, we're happy with it. Like, it's. [00:26:25] Speaker A: And was, was it a little bit cheaper up there or nothing? [00:26:30] Speaker B: Not. I don't. Not really. [00:26:32] Speaker C: Yeah, a little bit. [00:26:33] Speaker B: I mean, at that time, again, this was February 22, so things were still. Market was still pretty hot. You know, you were competing like we've been competing, you know, with other, other buyers. [00:26:44] Speaker A: So I guess at that point, it was starting to cool off a little bit. [00:26:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, cool. But happy with it. It functions, it makes a couple of bucks. And no complaints on Blue Ridge. [00:26:56] Speaker B: Yeah, no, you know, and honestly, I'm not afraid to get somebody in there for a lower rate. You know, I mean, you might have the owner that says, hey, I'm not going to rent this for less than $139 a night. I would rather rent it for, you know, even if it's 99. It's a two bedroom cabin up in the mountains, you know, a lot of last minute bookings. You know, sometimes, I mean, I'm okay with saying I'll mark it down to even $99 to get those, those gaps filled, you know, asses and seats. Right. I think you say that on a regular basis. I mean, I'm fine filling the dates versus them just being, you know, not booked and really not making any revenue. [00:27:31] Speaker A: So I got no, I mean, I don't like to go to a $100 on a two bedroom, but if I have to, then I have to. I mean, at that point, it becomes a hotel room. Right. You know, so if they have options at a hotel for $100, then why wouldn't I just offer them? And then it keeps my cleaner happy, you know? [00:27:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:54] Speaker A: Keep her working. Keep him working and that. It just keeps everything flowing. Some blue. Blue Ridge. And then where did we go from there? [00:28:02] Speaker C: Tennessee. [00:28:02] Speaker B: Tennessee. Yeah. So that's when we bought this one together. So in Tennessee, we worked with Levi up there. Yeah. Yep. So that was an awesome experience. You want to talk a little bit about that one or. [00:28:17] Speaker C: Yes. [00:28:18] Speaker A: How big is it? How many bedrooms? [00:28:20] Speaker C: Bedrooms. Two bath and Sevierville. [00:28:24] Speaker A: Did you say two, three bedroom. Two bed. Okay, cool. Three, two. [00:28:28] Speaker C: And knew we wanted to expand into that market, so we started looking. [00:28:33] Speaker A: Well, how do you, how do you navigate the. It's a completely different type of negativity in that market. You know, it's, it's. We know you're going to get rented there, but there are so many people doing this. How could you want to do this? It's, oh, my goodness, there's so many other people. Blah, blah, blah. How did you navigate that? And I. Did you care? [00:28:50] Speaker C: No, we didn't care. We did the research. We saw the numbers and knew we wanted to break into that market. We liked this property just because it's outside of the chaos. This was the first time we had ever been there, too. Once we put an offer in on this house, so we didn't really know what Gatlinburg and all that was about, but we put an offer on this house and we loved it because it was just off. It's in like the arts and crafts district of Sevierville, and it's just off of the chaos. And we really cater to, we get a lot of families. We are pet friendly. So I feel like we differ in that aspect. And it's a cabin is right, not right next door. You know, it's not cabin row. It's just a little bit different than the normal that everybody books there. So we love it. [00:29:48] Speaker B: Yeah. We didn't throw a dart. [00:29:49] Speaker C: No, we did our research. We did the research. Levi really came through for us, and we're still working with him to find another one in that area. We really like it out there. [00:30:00] Speaker A: Okay, great, great. And we've moved on to three markets now. Are you happy with that decision at this point? Would you rather they were all in one area? Sometimes we hear people would rather have them next to each other. No. No problems with the management being at a distance or what are your thoughts on that? [00:30:22] Speaker C: No, I think we do a great job of, you know, finding a good team, finding a good cleaner, finding a good handyman for eyes on the property. You know, we try to do our best to make it out there, you know, once or twice a year to do maintenance, you know, just see how things are going. And it also helps us to, you know, service other owners, other guests and things like that. Just having different knowledge in different markets. [00:30:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:53] Speaker C: So we love it. [00:30:54] Speaker B: You know, I'm not sure we would treat any house, a house any different if it was 30 minutes away or 8 hours away. And the way we run it, you know, could we drive out there? Right. If something happens and, you know, it's a simple fix. You know, you got to put a new door on a property or, I don't know, something dumb like that. Right. But you know, I mean, we'll generally just call somebody to make that happen. So whether it's here, we don't have the time. [00:31:16] Speaker C: Even if we were down the road, I don't think it's worth our time and money. We really have to outsource and have a great team built to rely upon, and I think we're really good at strategizing with that. [00:31:30] Speaker A: So it's paid off and you've taken on some other folks properties. At this point you're co hosting. Tell me a little bit about that. [00:31:37] Speaker B: Totally. Yeah. So after purchasing this smokies property, we were on obviously the trajectory to buy a property per year. We really wanted to see what we could do to speed that up. It's expensive to buy houses, obviously. So we thought, hey, let's look into this co hosting gig to see if we can help some other owners that want to invest in these properties and make money. There are also a lot of owners that are using larger property management companies that really are not doing as good as they should. So that was a motivator as well. Saw, the clear difference is if you're self managing or you're working with a large property manager, the revenue numbers don't even compare. So we thought we would start the co hosting side of things. So opened up a little co hosting business. We co host for seven additional properties now. So we have ten short term rentals as a whole in management and those seven properties. Not to throw more markets in there, but there's, we've got Florida, Georgia, Tennessee. We also have some in Oregon, believe it or not, which is completely the opposite direction. I'm from the Oregon coast, so we go there to visit family on somewhat of a regular basis. So it, you know, made sense for us to pick up some, some over there as well. [00:32:52] Speaker A: So any interest in going full on property manager with it or you just like the side gig co host thing? [00:32:59] Speaker C: Eventually we would like it. [00:33:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean the term property manager. [00:33:06] Speaker A: Having a brokerage licenses and the whole thing. [00:33:09] Speaker B: Right, exactly. Maybe eventually. Never say never. But we're comfortable what we're doing right now. The goal is to continue to produce that cash flow to buy properties, investment properties that we can use wherever we want to go. So it's not like we want to take over the world of property management. We're looking to just increase our cash flow a bit so we can obviously scale from that, buying one property to here to maybe two or three. We have three properties, but theyre just getting to a place to where those properties are going to continue to buy other properties, and we just want to accelerate that. Yeah, accelerate that a bit. [00:33:47] Speaker A: So at managing ten, do you feel like youre at your capacity as far as other peoples, or would you be interested in taking more on? [00:33:56] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. [00:33:57] Speaker C: I think we're getting to our threshold of what the two of us can handle, especially having our full time jobs. But, yeah, we're definitely looking to expand and positioning ourselves to grow. [00:34:17] Speaker A: What property management software are we using? [00:34:19] Speaker B: Hospitable. [00:34:21] Speaker A: Oh, very simple. Nice. And they just came out with their new financials after all these years. Finally made our lives a lot easier. [00:34:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:28] Speaker A: Okay, great. And so just the three properties that you own or is there, do we have plans for a fourth? Is there a fourth? [00:34:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. We're looking right now. [00:34:37] Speaker C: We're putting in offers. [00:34:38] Speaker A: And what are your thoughts on shopping in this market? [00:34:44] Speaker B: It's less competitive. [00:34:46] Speaker A: 2024. I mean, it's weird, right? So what is it like out there making offers in this economy, in this market, Steven? [00:34:53] Speaker B: So its a lot less competitive. I enjoy it a bit more. Aside from the interest rates, obviously, nobody likes interest rates right now, but youre not competing with ten buyers to purchase a property. So I think this is more of an opportunity for buyers to get something at a decent price point and then to maybe refinance when the rates go down, if they ever go down. Generous amount. But it's, I mean, you're talking to a guy that put in, like, multiple offers for a number of years and only landed, like, two properties the first two years, you know? So I kind of enjoy this. Like, hey, that property looks great. Nobody's looking at it. Has been on the market for 90 days. Let's go see how willing they are to, you know, to work with what offer we give them. [00:35:40] Speaker A: Okay, hold on. So what's the strategy on the purchase? Are you always looking right now, at least in this right now today, for something that's been on the market for several months or what's this? The buy box? [00:35:53] Speaker B: Yeah. So the buy box. Yeah. So something that's been on the market for a number of months. I mean, that, you know, those are the opportunity listings, I think. Right. So for us, do you mean buy box in terms of, like, a price point or. [00:36:08] Speaker A: No, I mean, like, determining which one to make an offer on. Because you're saying there's more listings right now than we've had in a number of years. I mean, many years. Right. So, like, how do you know which one is worth throwing offers at? Are you just throwing offers at all of them and then trying to find out which seller actually wants to sell all of them? [00:36:27] Speaker C: I mean, we looked at one that had just come on the market and we wanted to put an offer in. So, I mean, it's not. It doesn't matter whether it just comes on the market or it's been on the market. I think we're just having to expand our, you know, maybe looking at ones that possibly need more work than. Than we originally purchased, you know, that were ready to go on the market. So it's just opening up what we're willing to do, I guess. [00:36:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So it's something. Obviously, we're running the numbers on the properties. If we find something that, you know, has good cash on cash, I mean, at that point, you know, it's cash on cash is. We're relative. Right. Somebody's cash on cash expectation may be different than the other guys, but. But if the numbers make sense and we can get it for a good deal, it's something that we like that we could potentially use as well. I think that's something that motivates us. That's what we're looking at when purchasing our fourth right now. [00:37:28] Speaker A: Are you finding that there are slightly better deals right now than two years ago or not? [00:37:34] Speaker B: Seems like it. It seems like it. The number is still a little more difficult to get to work at times because of interest rates, but they're still out there. So I'm definitely finding properties at better price points now than they were one two years ago. [00:37:51] Speaker A: Yes. It's such a weird. It's a weird market. But you are certainly correct about not having any competition. This is very few buyers right now, which seems to me like the perfect time to buy, but for whatever reason, they're not buying. And, yeah, throw a bunch of offers, see which. That's. That's what. That's where I'm at with it. Look, I had one recently that the dude, this was a long term, and he called and he called that my agent, she was managing it previously, or I don't even know, and he wanted to sell it and he was hurting and he was like a regular dude. He was like a chef or something in a kitchen, and it was the only house he owned, and he was hurting for money and something like that. And anyway, ended up being like four months of back and forth, and I think he was trying to decide if he wanted to, like, fix it up and list it or not. And then eventually he. Because I just like, here's my number. I'm not changing this number, period. I just can't. I can't. I will not make any money on it if I. If I do any more than this is the best I can do. Eventually, he just came. He came back and said, let's do it, you know, he came back, like, within two grand. At one point, I was like, no, I'm dead serious. I can't, you know. Now, again, this was like an off market thing, and it was a relationship based thing, was through my agent. But, you know, it just, for whatever reason, it did work out, and that's not. I guess my point is that would never have happened three years ago. No way in hell that that story would, even if existed two, three years ago. So, yeah, we just got to pay attention. You know, it's just part of the job. You got to pay attention and learn what the new landscape is, and it seems to be changing fairly regularly right now. All right, cool. So what's the future? We want some more co hosts. Are we planning to keep the day jobs? Are we happy there? [00:39:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you know, ultimate goal, you know, if we didn't have to work our day jobs, obviously we really, we really enjoy the short term and vacation rental side of things. Obviously, we're co hosting. If we didn't like it, we wouldn't be doing this for other people. So eventually, to leave our w two s and do this, yeah, that would be absolutely amazing. But, like, you know, you need, you know, if you have a job, it's a little bit more simple to purchase property, so we'll probably keep it for as long as we need to. That's kind of where I'm at. [00:40:16] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Just grow and continue to. To work our regular jobs and, you know, fill our plates up even more, you know. [00:40:26] Speaker A: Well, I'm proud of you guys. I'm super proud of you. You're working hard. It's not easy to do any of this stuff that you're doing. So congratulations and trying to make a difference in your lives, and if there's anything we can do to help with that, we're happy to do that. Do you have a book suggestion for us? Something maybe you've read recently or something that really changed the way you think about the world? [00:40:46] Speaker B: You want to go first in that one? [00:40:47] Speaker A: Six books would be fine. You don't have to give just one. [00:40:52] Speaker C: One. Recently I read, it's like a self motivation, personal development is the eagle and the dragon by Chris Dufflin, entrepreneur, overcoming just strength and perseverance. [00:41:08] Speaker A: I love this. I do not know that book. Thank you. I'm a big reader, and I just love the title, so thank you. I am. I am. I will guarantee you. Or Chris, whatever his name was that wrote the book, I will buy that book and put it in my queue. So thank you. [00:41:25] Speaker C: On sale on Amazon. [00:41:27] Speaker A: Nice. Eagle and the dragon. That sounds like a. Like a Netflix series. [00:41:33] Speaker C: Could be, yeah. [00:41:35] Speaker B: The one I think about the most. So, Tim Grover, relentless. He's also got one that's called winning. It's great. Tim Grover, he was the trainer for Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade. That's probably the number one one in my book there. Of course, I want to say rich dad, poor dad, but you hear that on every freaking podcast. [00:41:56] Speaker A: Every podcast. Yes. I'm literally downloading eagle and dragon right now. [00:42:02] Speaker C: There you go. It's very interesting. [00:42:05] Speaker A: Eagle and the dragon. [00:42:07] Speaker B: Yes. [00:42:08] Speaker A: I have not heard of this. It has very few reviews. [00:42:12] Speaker C: Yes. But it's. It's a good one. [00:42:14] Speaker A: I like that. So. And it's like, five years old with very few reviews. This. This is definitely in my wheelhouse. Okay. Downloaded. All right, guys, it's been wonderful. Great to hear your story, and I'm super proud of you. Just keep. Keep waking up and getting it done. And how do we find you? Do you want to be found? [00:42:35] Speaker C: Yeah, totally. Go ahead. [00:42:39] Speaker B: Yeah. So, a couple places. So if you find us on Facebook, obviously, we're part of the short term shop group. Our website for our co hosting business is wandermorehosting.com. [00:42:49] Speaker C: W a n d e R. Yep, exactly. Wandermore. Wander. A little more. [00:42:58] Speaker A: Oh, that's what I was gonna ask you about. Retiring in the day job. We. You know, I. It sounds like you like your jobs. Do you like your jobs? I. That's very refreshing. You know. [00:43:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't. I don't mind my job. And I'm gonna retire from the army, so that'll free up a little bit of time. [00:43:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:18] Speaker C: For me. [00:43:20] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:43:22] Speaker A: I'm. [00:43:22] Speaker B: You know, I. I don't like the non freedom aspect. Let's just say that, you know, I've done my job for 16 years now, so it's just literally, like. It's just the job. I don't really know anything else. You know, for most. Most of my adult life, I've done that. [00:43:39] Speaker A: Provide a better life for yourself. They're big strides. Big, giant strides. So congratulations and thank you. So much. I'm sorry. [00:43:47] Speaker C: We enjoy what we do on the co hosting side and on the short term rental side, so that's our passion right now. [00:43:54] Speaker A: There you go. Love it. Love it. We enjoy it, too. And thanks for hanging with us on short term rental management. And as always, don't overthink it. [00:44:01] Speaker C: Thanks, Luke. [00:44:02] Speaker B: Thanks, Luke. See ya.